IntervieweD BY
Lena Waithe
Creative Director: Enrique Menendez, Photographer: Jennifer Medina, Stylist: Leonard Murray, Designer: Nirvana Garreffa
For over a decade, Janelle Monáe’s blend of pop, funk, soul and R&B has resonated with an audience base as bold and diverse as her music. Now, Monáe’s third studio album, Dirty Computer, is an outburst anthem that finds strength in introspection and declaration. Her first major body of work since publicly coming out as pansexual, the artist delivers an ode to queer black America. The album follows Monáe through a process of reckoning, acceptance and reclamation as she ultimately owns her place in society. As Emmy-winning screenwriter, producer and actor Lena Waithe puts it, Janelle Monáe represents hope, strength and black girl joy. Below, Monáe and Waithe on living out loud, unapologetic self love, owning the renaissance and celebrating Dirty Computer’s.
“I took my time to do those things and I think with Dirty Computer in particular, it was about creating community. Writing music has never been the goal.”
LW Yo, yo.
JM Oh my god, it's happening.
LW What’s going on Jane?!
JM Hey! Nothing much. I’m happy we could make this happen.
LW I Know! Me too. You got a lot of great shit going on. Where are you? I know your tour is wrapping at the end of this month, right?
JM I’m on my last two Atlanta shows and then I go straight to Europe in September and I'm touring till November. I'm gonna take off November and try to do some projects and the next year I'm going on tour again. We're gonna have a second leg of the Dirty Computer tour. It don't stop.
LW Damn. Sheesh. It don't stop. Well look, I really do think that this new album, Dirty Computer, is some of your best work. You can't make this album without going through a metamorphosis in your life which obviously you did. Were you able to do this album, that I think a lot of us have been waiting for, because you finally said, “Okay. I'm going to take off the mask. I'm going to in essence stop playing a role? So that way I can really step through the looking glass?”
JM Well, thank you sis. I think everything is about timing. I knew I was supposed to make Dirty Computer before my first album The Arch Android. When I do speak or when I put out a project it needs to really, really mean something to me and not just me but to the people that I want to celebrate and I think it was important for me this time around to tap into my evolution even more.
I think that the work that I've put out to date, all of these projects, are me and have been me. They’ve just been different parts of me and they've been limited to where I was at that time and the growth that I had at the time. So I think in between projects, I've been able to understand myself a little more. I've been able to use different muscles. I've been able to live. I think I needed that time to just live and I think that we need to have these experiences — whether we go through them ourselves or we are around them — because they inform our work in so many ways. It’s important to me to communicate clearer and be able to communicate in a way that hopefully will inspire and touch people's hearts. I took my time to do those things and I think with Dirty Computer in particular, it was about creating community. Writing music has never been the goal. It's always been about, in the middle of lifting other people up, lifting myself. And sometimes songs are not for me, they work through me. A lot of these songs and the things on the project came from an honest, a vulnerable space.
LW You can feel it.
JM With these types of projects it takes time, and I just allowed myself the time and space.
Helmut Lang trench, AHLEM glasses, Vetements boots (C/O The Webster), Jennifer Fisher jewelry
“This was a very personal story that was not necessarily just about me but it was about a community of folks who have been pushed to the margins of society. You know like I know, our stories are being erased. They're not being told.”
LIVING OUT LOUD
LW Pansexual was the number one Merriam-Webster word the day the news broke about you coming out. What was that like?
JM That is amazing. I found out about that. I never would have thought or guessed that. It’s great that people are being educated. This was a very personal story that was not necessarily just about me but it was about a community of folks who have been pushed to the margins of society. You know like I know, our stories are being erased. They're not being told. People don’t realize that being free, being a free ass motherfucker, comes with sacrifice. This is not a walk in the park accomplishment. You know that. It comes with sacrifice. It can come with stress. It can come with a lot of misunderstanding. It comes with responsibility.
LW Responsibility, because you're representing a whole community all of a sudden. Because there's not enough of us out there. That's living out loud. I always joke and say, if you step in front of the BET awards audience and then in front of the NAACP Image Awards Audience and say, "Stand up if you're an out black person in the industry," About five people would stand up. And those numbers just don’t add up. Do you think eventually more and more people will start to live out loud?
JM I have had to realize that we're all not in the same situation. Some people's families are extremely religious, or extremely homophobic. Especially in our community. And there are some people in different parts of the world, and right here in America, where they can be ostracized from their community and killed for living out loud. So some people have a lot at stake, and I just think I'm more empathetic to that regardless if they're in the industry or not.
And I just have to respect that and know that, in my situation, I’ve chosen to be a free ass motherfucker, and I’ve had the necessary conversations with loved ones and have the support I need. I hope that we can all get to a place where our loved ones and the people around us are able — or I'm speaking specifically about those who can’t live out loud right now — that they can somehow get that support, and feel like this world is set up in a way that it can grant them the same freedoms that I have because I do feel extremely blessed and thankful to have a support system. And to have a community of people that don't make me feel alone and I feel like I can move in a way that makes me breathe easy at night. I sleep better at night.
LW That's real.
C2H4 jacket, Givenchy pants (C/O The Webster)
“It’s interesting, because it really is this jacket I have to wear. But in essence it's really my skin. It's not something I put on and take off. But there's this thing that people always feel like it needs to be addressed.”
LW I get a question often when I'm out in the world, which is, "What is it like — or how hard is it, rather – to be a queer 'out' woman of color?" It’s interesting, because it really is this jacket I have to wear. But in essence it's really my skin. It's not something I put on and take off. But there's this thing that people always feel like it needs to be addressed. And I guess, I always give a answer that's sort of a little odd in that, it has not been a hindrance to me. I'm a person who's benefited from being born, you know, working middle class. From being born to a single mother. Being born, you know, gay as shit, you know what I'm saying? And knowing that and then owning it.
JM The most irritating but funny thing is when someone says, "Well, we knew that already. Them tuxedos." I'm like, be all the way quiet! Just because a woman wears a tuxedo, that don't mean nothing fool!"
LW Is it exhausting for you talking about it all the time?
JM It can be exhausting to constantly discuss one aspect of who you are but I think it’s important to educate folks on who you are as well. We say it all the time: representation matters.
LW That is, that's good. That is real.
JM It's levels to it. And I just wanna say this, and I think this is important, too. One of the reasons I thought it was important to do this album and to even deal with the exhaustion that can come with always discussing one part of who you are — because people are very intrigued with that, and it can take over, it can take over the whole conversation — but what ended up making me say that this is going to be important, was that I had younger cousins in my family who were being ostracized by some of our family. Some family members were using the bible to justify their behavior. They just could not understand that lifestyle. And they couldn't understand what it meant to be queer. And then at the same time, you have our Vice President Mike Pence talking about conversion therapy.
LW Preach. Preach. Preach. Preach.
JM You have homophobic people who are in support of those in power who are homophobic. And it felt like this is the time that I need to speak up and to help celebrate people like my little cousins. People around the world who feel like they don't matter, that they're misunderstood. That they should be pushed to the margins of society and ostracized from society and changed and reprogrammed and cleansed because of who they are. saying?
And so, Dirty Computer is not just about Janelle Monáe. It's really about creating a community for people like me — who, if I wasn't an artist, and I didn't have this thing I would still be a young, queer, black woman born to poor, working class parents. And I have to deal with that reality. And what would that mean for me.
You know, I have more access, and I can move through life a little more easily. I still have been in a position to work and to have money and to have my own apartment and to move out of my house if my parents didn't accept me, but there are so many people around the world that don’t. They’re pushed out of their homes. People are committing suicide. Kids in high school and middle school are committing suicide because they don't feel like they would be accepted if they were walking in their truth. And, what I wanted to do with Dirty Computer is to create a community. Create a community where you can go to a concert and connect to people that are like us and all the dirty computers around the world.
LW Your concerts are like church. And being there, you know, like black lesbians are there. They are like, “Yes, bitch.” And it's not just about lesbians...
JM Everybody is coming in the name of love. You know what I'm saying?
THE GOSPEL OF
DIRTY COMPUTER
“You are hope. You represent hope, you represent strength. You represent black girl joy.”
OWNING THE RENAISSANCE
LW You’re leading. You're like, you're a leader. I can feel it. You are hope. You represent hope, you represent strength. You represent black girl joy. You know? Something about that smile, the face, the way you move, the way you dance. It’s like there's something about you that you are aspirational and that people want to be you, but they also look at you and see themselves in you. And that's rare.
JM Aw wow that’s love. Thank you sis.
LW And I think the energy I felt when I was there [at the concert] that to me was like, “Oh, this is the Renaissance. This is it. These are the descendants. This is it, this is a part of it. I really feel like we have taken the torch. The torches that were passed. What does that mean to you?
JM It's an amazing time to be creating. When I look at you, Donald, Issa, I can go on and on and on; producing films, not just producing them but even starring in them, writing them. We're telling our story through our lens. Even Black Panther. Having something that broke the box office in that way. To Jordan Peele to Ava DuVernay. I mean, this is an incredible time to be alive, because there's community. And there's water that we all can swim in. We finally have and we're giving each other life jackets, and we're collaborating.
I think our community thrives when we realize that we are stronger together and that it's a win-win situation when your fellow brother, your sister's winning, because there's more opportunity for you. I don't feel alone. I don't feel alone in my creativity, in my ideas, in science fiction, in magical surrealism, even in non fiction, fiction, telling stories. Even with doing the film, Dirty Computer, doing this album. When I look at what you guys are doing, I'm like, they're thinking beyond just being a part of a cast. They're like, “Nom et’s produce it, let’s own some shit.” So that's where I am. Owning. Owning. Owning.
LW Oh, yeah. Come on. And that's what the white boys do.
“But I think it just summed up what it meant to really embrace the things that make you unique. Even if it makes others uncomforT-
able.”
LW So I want to talk to you about “I Like That.” One, I love that song. I like that it's so layered because it's sensual, but it's also extremely empowering. And it's also very personal. I mean, you get very specific in it, and I love specificity. I'm just curious how that song came together. And what the fuck did you feel the first time you heard that shit? 'Cause you had to know like, “this is special.”
JM Well, yes, thanks sis. With that song I worked with Organized Noise and N8 Wonder in Atlanta. I also co-wrote it with a talented artist by the the name of Tayla Parxx. But I think it just summed up what it meant to really embrace the things that make you unique. Even if it makes others uncomfortable. I had been saying that, and I was like, I need a song that really, really, really speaks to self love and the love of your ideas when people call you weird for loving science fiction. You know, people have called me that. People have called me too hard to understand. Or you know, “we need to simplify it so that folks can understand.”
But the truth is, there are people that understand me. That understand all of us. We have audiences and I think to marginalize black folks and say, "You know, hey, you guys are black, so therefore, stick to R & B, stick to making the music that you have traditionally been known to make” is extremely limiting. I just love music. I love Prince and Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder and I love artists who are able to create worlds. I love David Bowie, I love Pink Floyd, I love Radiohead.
I love so much of it and to limit myself would be doing myself a disservice, so that song really just spoke to me loving my blackness unapologetically, me loving my queerness unapologetically. Me loving my style, my ideas, unapologetically, and I hope that when people are able to listen to it, that whatever that means to them, whatever their uniqueness represents to them, when they listen to it, they feel more confident to walk in their truth. Despite what the rest of the world might say.”
“I LIKE THAT”
AND UNAPOLOGETIC
SELF-LOVE
“Angry. I was very upset writing “Django Jane.” How could you not be? As an African-American woman in society — just speaking from that lens. When you think about who's in the position of power right now.
LW Can we talk about “Django Jane” real quick? There's something about that energy. There's something about your spirit, something about your voice and even that performance. There’s something happening, something through you. There’s always been the confidence and fun
and joy that happens on stage. You obviously have a shit ton of energy. But I feel like that
song in particular is the epitome of protest art. I'm just curious, what space were you in when you sat down to fucking write that or channel that or get to that place?
JM Angry. I was very upset writing “Django Jane.” How could you not be? As an African-American woman in society — just speaking from that lens. When you think about who's in the position of power right now. When you think about the level of disrespect that woman have been given — especially woman of color, especially black women.
I have verses that I couldn't even fit in “Django Jane.” I felt like we needed an anthem. I felt like I personally needed a reminder. I personally felt like it was time to take the mic back. And I think “Django Jane” was me taking the mic back, us taking the mic back.
There are lines in there, ”probably get a Emmy dedicated to the highly melanated,” like you inspired that line. You, Issa, I want to say that was after you got your Emmy.
So it's you, women like you, women like Issa, women like Yara. I could go on and on and on but I was so inspired by what you guys were doing, what you were saying, what so many people had been saying and it was like I want to come and add value to this conversation. And if you were ever confused about how I’m feeling, here’s a clear letter to you. Read it.
LW That song, that song is going to live on forever. Forever.
JM I pray.
THE
“Django Jane”
ANTHEM
Off-White™ dress, MISBHV shoes
“I'm going to be the best fucking Dirty Computer that I can be. I'm going to love myself. I am going
to use this as a superpower.”
LW And then, more to the lighter side, let’s talk about “PYNK” for a second. There's something so whimsical about that song and also humorous, too. It’s cheeky. It's fun. It's almost not taking itself too seriously. But also, it's a vibe too. You know what I'm saying? And this album, I keep revisiting it and finding new things in it. It’s like The Wizard of Oz. Like that movie means so much to me. It's like every time I watch it, I discover something new, not just about the film, but about myself. And that's how I see my relationship with this album; I’m discovering things about myself. And I'm sure, I know I'm not the only one because I think in you being so vulnerable and peeling back the layers of yourself, you're revealing us to ourselves.
What was going through your mind when you set out to make that song? It also feels not like anything else on the album. That's the weird thing. It's like I'm on a fucking journey...
JM It's interesting that you say the word journey because the album is broken up into three parts. So you have “Dirty Computer;” you have, “Crazy, Classic Life;” you have “Take a Byte;” and then you have “Screwed.”
Those four songs represent the reckoning. That is the part when society — your community or America — says to you, “This is who you are. You are a Dirty Computer. This is how we see you.” It’s when those who have historically been oppressor’s tell those who have been historically oppressed, “ This is who you are in society. This is how we look at you.”
THE WIZARD
OF “PYNK”
And then you go from “‘Django Jane,” “PYNK,” “Make Me Feel,” “I Got the Juice,” and “I Like That.” That part is the acceptance. That's, “Okay, I'm going to accept who I am. This is how they
see me and what I'm going to do is I'm going to be the best fucking Dirty Computer that I can be. I'm going to love myself.I am going to use this as a superpower.”
When you hear “Django Jane,” when you hear
“I Got the Juice,” when you hear “Make Me Feel”, that's, “I'm going to be confident in my sexuality.
I'm going to be confident in my womanhood. I'm going to be confident, in being an African-American woman in society. I'm going to love myself, despite what you say.”
“I tried to pull as much of me as I could and to also leave people with hope and I hope that people feel seen. I hope they feel loved. I hope they feel celebrated and I hope they feel heard when they listen to this album.”
BLACK, QUEER “AMERICANS”
JM Then you have the reclamation, when you get down to “Americans.” That latter part of the album is saying, “Yes I'm a Dirty Computer, but I too am America. And right now America is not working for me.”
And when you hear the pastor that I have on the album, I was really inspired by his sermons. When I heard his sermon, he had mentioned, “until women can get equal pay for work,” until same-gender loving people can be who they are, until poor whites can get a shot at being successful” and when he was mentioning all this stuff, he was saying, “this is not my America, but I tell you today that the devil is a liar because it's going to be my America before it's all over.”
And so that was how I wanted to close it. It's not about, “Well, let's complain and let’s all live in fear.” This album is a very American album, but through the lens of an African-American queer woman and so, it was just important to break up the album, to allow myself to go through, “Wow, this is what I really mean to society. How am I going to deal with it?” And so that's why you have those songs that feel introspective, you have those that feel, very cocky, because we need that. It’s not just about protest...
LW Yeah, it's all of it.
JM It's exploration. I tried to pull as much of me as I could and to also leave people with hope and I hope that people feel seen. I hope they feel loved. I hope they feel celebrated and I hope they feel heard when they listen to this album.
LW They do. You got an army.
“And who do I want to celebrate? And so I'm just putting my energy into celebrating Dirty Computers, to celebrating us. That's what I'm focused on.”
LW My last question is going to be to ask how you got Stevie Wonder on the album.
JM Well, let me tell you man, Stevie Wonder has inspired me my entire life and I think whenever I listen to Stevie Wonder's music, I feel like I want to reconnect closer with God. I listen to pretty much any of his songs and I always get the sense that he's reminding you to love. Love. Love.
And so that happened very organically because it was around Easter and he had invited me over. We were just eating and we were talking about something that had happened and we were just talking through, talking about the protests and there was a lot going on during that time.
And I was frustrated and I just asked him, you know, how did he get through the Civil Rights Movement. So, he told me to record what he was about to say because he wanted our generation to always have it to listen to, and he said, “You know Janelle, listen, you're not going to win with words of hate. That's what your enemy is using. You're not going to win that way…”
LW “Even when you’re upset, use words of love because God is love. Allah is love...”
JM “Allah is love...”
LW “Jehovah is love, so don't let your expressions, even of anger be confused or misconstrued. Turn them into words of expression that can be understood by using words of love.”
JM It was something about how he said it that just hit me and I said, “I have to figure out how to do what's difficult during this time.”
Because it's easy for me to hate. It's easy for us to hate. It's easy for us to say, I hate these people. They can have this country. It was a personal challenge for me to figure out where I can put my energy. And that was using love, the love of all the folks, from the poor to the LGBTQI community, to black women, to women, to immigrants to those who have been ostracized from this country.
It was [more] important for me to celebrate them, than it was for me to hate those in the position of power. So, that's why I chose to just use my energy to celebrate the people that needed to be celebrated and not be concerned with who we was going to piss off. I said, who do I not really give a fuck about pissing off? And who do I want to celebrate? And so I'm just putting my energy into celebrating Dirty Computers, to celebrating us. That's what I'm focused on.
LW That's amazing. Damn. Well, shit. You just fucking... that was a word.
STEVIE'S
DREAM
THE DIRTY
COMPUTER LANDS