TakES Back Pop
Ava Max might be one of the fastest rising pop stars in the world, but she’s still as Valley as they come.
Though she was born in Wisconsin, grew up in Virginia, and moved around a lot as a teen, after a decade spent in Los Angeles the rising pop star is a self-proclaimed “Valley girl.” Following the success of her breakout hit “Sweet But Psycho” in 2018, she hasn’t moved to Beverly Hills or relocated out to Malibu; the suburbs will do just fine. Throughout all the peaks and valleys of her already striking career, Max has been loyal to this little hub on the outskirts of LA, and her whole family even moved to the area at one point when she was a talented young teen looking to break into music.
Opting to meet at an unobtrusive cafe in Sherman Oaks, instead of somewhere in the maze of trendy and glamorous neighborhoods that put LA on the map, managing an in-person interview after months on Zoom proved trickier than it used to be. “It’s crazy I couldn’t even find parking today,” she laughs after finally nabbing a street spot on the bustling strip of Ventura Boulevard. “Usually it’s all clear, so I think the world is definitely opening back up. But I love it, I love the Valley. I’ve been here ten years and I’m such a Valley girl. I just feel like it’s home now because I’ve been here for so long.”
With her signature “Max” haircut in place — one side long and wavy, the other short and straight — Ava rocks a casual, cut-up Slipknot shirt and laughs easily during our hour-long interview. Claiming one of the outdoor tables at Sweet Butter Kitchen for a conversation about her history as an artist and how COVID-19 shaped a crucial portion of her career, we settle in for a very Valley lunch — my croque monsieur sandwich dripping with bechamel, and her Caprese sandwich on gluten-free brioche, due to a mild gluten intolerance. When we remove our masks to eat (thankfully both vaccinated), she exclaims how nice it is to see someone maskless, and after a year-and-a-half spent indoors, both of us appreciate the chance to talk face to face instead of over screens.
AUGUST 3 2021
BY:CAITLIN WHITE
As one of the star-crossed artists who found themselves promoting and releasing a debut during the whirlwind of pivots and cancellations that was COVID-19 last year, Max seems happy to stay closer to home, where she spent the last year and a half managing the impact of the pandemic. But she’s even happier to be out and about in her own neighborhood, able to meet up for a face-to-face conversation about her first full-length project, Heaven And Hell, which came out just under a year ago now. With a release date for the record slated for September of 2020, Ava spent last spring watching as her promotion cycle — and plans to tour — began to dwindle and morph.
To distract herself from the inevitable, during her days off she began making homemade crepes to pass the time (for the gluten-free fans reading, Max swears by brown rice flour in her crepe batter). “Everything was changing, it was a very weird time,” she remembers, managing to field questions between bites. “I was really upset, I had a headlining tour I was about to announce, and then I couldn’t announce it. I was in LA, doing Zoom interviews for my album — and that was about it. On my off days, I was Netflix-and-chilling and making gluten-free crepes. I even created a crepe tutorial for YouTube, it was hilarious! I ordered European chocolate from Amazon, similar to Nutella, and then used a raspberry sauce for toppings. I was getting obsessed.”
Though some artists used the massive amount of free time to create more music, and even release additional albums — looking at you, Taylor and Charli — for Ava, 2020 was a fallow period, creatively. The pandemic year wasn’t a peak for this Valley girl, or many of us who were struggling with isolation, even if Max was happier than ever to finally put an album out. But what’s to come in 2021 will delight fans who are still discovering this rising star who is undeniably pop in a music world that feels like it’s undergoing a slow, folksy takeover. For Max, it wasn’t until the calendar turned to 2021 that she felt a burst of inspiration. Like a lot of people, the spiritual shift of a new year helped her reconnect with her artistic side. “I wasn’t writing too much last year,” she says. “I started writing again and feeling really inspired in January. A ton of inspiration came to me that month. I finally didn’t feel bad.”
"everything was changing, it was a very weird time."
Amanda Ava Koci was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on February 16, 1994, the same week Celine Dion’s “The Power Of Love” finally hit No. 1 on the Billboard charts, a fitting welcome for an artist who would soon be earning recognition as a powerhouse vocalist in her own right. And while the support of family is something that plenty of successful artists point to during their rise, for Max, the way her parents and brother championed her dream from a young age was instrumental in her rise. As the daughter of immigrants who fled Albania during the fall of communism, even as a child Ava understood that her mother had put dreams of being an opera singer on hold in order to offer a better life to her daughter.
“They built their dream house in Chesapeake and then they sold it after only living in it for like three years,” she says. “I didn’t realize until later, like oh my God they actually sold their house! Again, looking back I’m like, ‘You guys left everything!’ They were really sacrificing everything for my dream. But they’re like that, they left Albania with nothing but one suitcase with a six-year-old, my brother. They lived in a Red Cross in Paris, France with no money. But my dad really wanted to come to America, so after a year living in a church my dad was like, ‘We’re going to America.’”
During their days in Paris, the family connected with a woman from Wisconsin who helped them immigrate to America, and they lived in Milwaukee for their first few years in the US. Shortly after Ava was born, the family moved to Virginia to escape brutal midwest winters, and that’s where she grew up. As Ava’s vocal talent slowly began to reveal itself, her mother’s support helped catapult the young singer into the spotlight. Starting off with in-town competitions, and eventually traveling to bigger cities for more prestigious events, her early success was too promising to ignore.
“I started singing at a really young age, and I just sang with my mom growing up,” she remembers. “She would sing in the house and has this really beautiful operatic voice. So I was like, ‘Oh my God, I want to sing!’ Everybody was always telling me how good my voice was — but as a young child, you don’t understand what a good voice is. I was like, ‘Oh cool, I love to sing. I guess I’ll try performing.’ So I started performing for my neighbors, then started doing these singing competitions, like the Radio Disney competitions that would come to town. It started in Virginia, then I started winning the competitions. My mom was like, ‘Okay, let’s do some others.’ So she found some in Florida, and some in New York. It was nuts.”
Convinced that Los Angeles was the right place for Ava to be discovered and start her career, the Kocis made the jump to California — only to face disappointment. Living in the Valley even back then, in Sherman Oaks, Ava remembers bringing her collection of original songs to labels, feeling ready to be signed and get to work. But truthfully, like most 14- and 15-year-olds she wasn’t quite mature enough to navigate the industry. After a year of living in LA, her family moved back east to South Carolina where her dad found some work.
“Timing is everything,” she says. “I had this bundle of songs I would shop to labels at thirteen. It always felt like they were going to sign me and they never would. I was sad at the time. I was like, ‘I just want to be signed, I want to work.’ I thought I was ready, but in a way I wasn’t, because I had a lot of growing up to do. But you don’t know that when you’re a kid. It happens like that. I feel like I had everything after “Sweet But Psycho” really dialed in. But I didn’t know that until “Sweet But Psycho” came out — and then I felt it.”
Still a few years out from her label deal and breakout hit, at 15, Ava was leaving LA to start over in a new city in South Carolina where she didn’t know anyone — and she still shudders at the bullying she received from cheerleaders at Lexington High School. Last year she even connected with a reporter, who also attended LHS, over the impact of those toxic mean girls in a piece that ran in Glamour. “All the cheerleaders bullied me!” she told the magazine. “It was awful. Those cheerleaders were rude. I spent so many days eating my PB&J Uncrustables in the bathroom.” To which the reporter, Christopher Rosa, rejoined: “Well, you're a queen of pop now, and where the hell are they?”
Surviving that year of bullying, Max opted to finish her education with a GED — pursued mostly just to satisfy her father’s wishes — and headed back to LA a little older and wiser. “I basically dropped out of high school,” she says. “I couldn’t be in school anymore, it was horrifying to me.” This time, her stint in LA would turn into something much more long-term, when a chance meeting with a producer finally turned her luck.
"I feel like that's partially why I made it, because my mom supported me so much and was always there for me."
"I thought I was ready, but in a way I wasn't, because I had a lot of growing up to do."
"Obviously, she had to give up on her dream,” Max explains. “Because she was an immigrant and she didn't have money, she didn’t know the language very well, she had kids — she had me! — so she gave up on her dream. When I started singing, I felt like she kind of started living her dream through mine, which is really cool, I think. Now that I look back at it, I feel like that’s partially why I made it, because my mom supported me so much and was always there for me.” Ava’s parents went above and beyond when it came to making sure the world heard their daughter’s voice. When she was fourteen, the couple sold the house they’d built in Virginia, packed up, and moved the whole family across the country to Los Angeles.
It was just another normal night out that changed Ava’s life and career forever. Back in 2014, almost seven years ago now, she sang “Happy Birthday” to the guest of honor at a dinner party. That guest happened to be the producer Cirkut, who has worked with artists like Rihanna, The Weeknd, Katy Perry, and Britney Spears. He was so impressed with her vocals that he quickly became her go-to collaborator, too. He’s not just a producer for her, but she calls him “a huge part of my life,” and even goes so far as to say, “I feel like without him I wouldn’t be here.” Like her family before, his support of her career is part of what helped Ava elevate to the next level.
“He really, really believed in me, even when everybody was basically turning their backs,” she remembers. “He believed in me and he started producing all the records I was writing — and then everybody was getting interested and wanting to sign me. It’s funny, the night I met him, I was just out with my girlfriends. Literally just out with my friends in LA, and it was a meant-to-be situation. He’s involved in everything I do, and I feel like we’re just on the same page.”
At a time when the dream of getting signed still felt so far off, Cirkut was championing Ava, and his production on her songs eventually led to a collaboration that had multiple labels interested in inking a contract with her. That song, 2016’s “Anyone But You,” also features her mother singing opera during the song’s intro, bringing the story full circle for Ava and her musical journey. “We did a song that my mom sang opera on in the beginning called ‘Anyone But You,’” she says. “I played it for record labels and everybody wanted to sign me, Columbia, Capitol, Atlantic. I started meeting with them and eventually went with Atlantic/APG. When I hear “Anyone But You” now I think of the struggle of getting signed. I tried to make it for so many years, and it sums everything up for me because it was the song that got me signed.”
One of the primary reasons Ava went with Atlantic over the other labels was their emphasis on development, and after closing the deal in 2016, she spent the next two years perfecting her sound and honing in on exactly the kind of pop star she wanted to be. During the summer of 2018, when the dreary sadness of slower, hip-hop-inflected beats was dominating the charts and the radio, Ava heard things differently. Interested in the classic, sparkling palette of a pure upbeat pop sound, she doubled down on synths, uptempo beats, and, of course, soaring over-the-top vocals. When Max released “Sweet But Psycho” that August, she was onto something.
The song exploded up the charts, becoming her first top-ten single on the Billboard Hot 100 and hitting No. 1 on charts across the globe, one of the first indications of her appeal as an international artist. It was also a signal that the world was ready for a new wave of bubbly, empowering music. “I felt that it was a good song, but I knew that there was a lot of indie music out at the time,” Ava says. “Even on New Music Friday, at the time, “Sweet But Psycho” was the only thing like it. It was the only pop song on there. “Sweet But Psycho” brought back pop music, and everybody started doing pop music again. Literally, all these pop artists started becoming more pop, and I think “Sweet But Psycho” opened the door for that again.”
Over the next two years, as Max slowly but surely released the string of singles that would comprise the bulk of her debut, she also built out her signature sound: Bright, towering pop hits with messages of empowerment, individuality, and desire for connection. Including 2018 features on Jason Derulo and David Guetta tracks, Max began previewing what would become album cuts during 2019 with songs like the misfit anthem “So Am I,” an almost-breakup ballad “Torn,” and the previously released — and still underrated — “Salt,” a dance floor kiss-off that boasts a chorus about literally having no tears left to cry. On the cusp of 2020, readying her debut album, things looked more promising than ever for this young vocalist. Of course, it was impossible for anyone to know what was coming in the next few months.
"Sweet But Psycho" brought back pop music, and everybody started doing pop music again."
Navigating an album release with no release show and no tour, alongside grief, it’s not surprising that Ava was uninterested in working on music last fall. But now that she’s back in a creative gear, her face lights up when talking about her new music. It’s just, the fact that it exists is about all she’s willing to share right now. “I can’t say anything about it, but it’s going very well,” she laughs. “It’s very, very exciting, and it is going to be different. More empowering records are on the way. They’re very upbeat songs, dance songs, but they also have a bit of a different story than I’ve talked about in the past.” To tide fans over, in the meantime, Ava released one more song as a continuation of her Heaven And Hell era. “Everytime I Cry” feels like a distillation of all the pent-up feelings of pandemic, her own personal loss, and the power of coming out on the other side.
Sharing the single in early June, Ava considers it part of the same group of songs that made up her debut, despite the gap in time. “It doesn’t fit in with album two,” she explains. “For me, it’s really just another empowering record that I wanted to put out. I couldn’t just keep it on my hard drive. I’m really excited about people hearing it, I feel like it’s really helping a lot of people, I’m getting a lot of DMs from people saying it’s helping them.” Destined to be a staple in spin classes around the planet, the song’s house-leaning beat and driving lyrics are exactly what a world recovering from isolation needs. “Every time I cry I get a little bit stronger,” Ava sings. “I know that angel used to be the devil on my shoulder – oh not anymore.”
In a video for the new track released just a few weeks ago, Ava wakes up wounded in a post-apocalyptic landscape, eventually fighting her way back to health literally through the power of her tears. It’s unsurprising that a song with high emotional stakes and a message of resilience is resonating so strongly right now. “I really wanted to be coming from a bruised and battered place in the mind,” she says. “How we feel when we get torn down, and even how I’ve felt even when I was younger, not feeling good enough. The video shows that you can take something like your tears and create something beautiful.”
In a similar vein, Max will be taking the disappointing circumstances of not being able to tour behind Heaven And Hell and pivoting, turning her next slate of live shows into another career peak. She’s been tapped by one of the biggest pop acts in the world, Maroon 5, to open for them on their recently-announced stadium tour. Max will be introducing the live versions of these songs to her fans, while likely picking up plenty of new ones along the way. The opportunity is an honor for her as a lifelong fan of the band, and even if she’s keen to head out on her own headlining tour soon, on this run she’ll be performing on the biggest stages of her career.
“It’s a dream, the stadium tour, and it kind of feels surreal at the moment,” she says. “I feel like it’s something that I’m never going to forget. I love Maroon 5 so much, I love “Sugar” and “Girl Like You,” but I’ve always loved them since “She Will Be Loved.” Having been around for so long and keeping up the hits and consistency is really inspiring, and I’m incredibly excited. The fans are the number one thing I’ve missed, when they’re singing back the lyrics I wrote when I’m on stage, it’s such a crazy feeling.”
And the lyrics that matter most to Ava are the ones that send out messages of resilience and strength to anyone that might be struggling. As she continues on her journey as an artist, keeping a message of empowerment is part of her focus – as is the positive pop sound. Even with the prevalence of folksier work from pop stars like Lorde and Lana Del Rey, or Taylor’s back-to-back 2020 records, her emphasis on the bright and classic remains unwavering. For a world that just survived a global pandemic, those uptempo hits are a welcome balm. It wasn’t always clear that Ava’s vision would take her to the top, but now that it has, she’s more confident than ever in her own sound.
“I was nervous about it at first, but I’m happy because now everyone is really into pop music again,” she said. “It’s like a new wave of pop music, and it was needed. I love it. Like, yes I can do a song about something like drinking. And I might, because it’s fun. But it doesn’t mean anything. I want to release meaningful songs. New empowering music. I think empowering music is important.”
"I WAS LITERALLY GOING THROUGH HEAVEN AND HELL."
In March of 2020, Ava shared her upcoming record’s fifth single, “Kings & Queens,” which became her second-highest charting song with a No. 13 peak on the Billboard Hot 100. The day after that single dropped, most of the country issued stay-at-home orders due to the pandemic. As the orders stretched from a few weeks, to a few months, to an indefinite hiatus on large gatherings, the music industry reeled over the impact of canceled shows and festivals. Despite all that, Atlantic held steady with their plans for releasing Max’s album. In July of last year she let fans know the album would be coming in September, sharing an additional new single, "the campy “Who’s Laughing Now,” the next day" and following up with “OMG What’s Happening” in early September, just a few weeks before release. Right when the album was released, she also shared “Naked,” one of her most vulnerable slow songs to date.
That decision was almost a preemptive shift for Ava, who was unexpectedly going through personal tragedy during one of the highest points of her career. “My grandpa passed away last September, about two days after my debut album came out,” she confides. “It was so devastating, it was just a shock. I definitely know what death feels like but you can never get used to death. That was really hard. It’s crazy because my album’s called Heaven And Hell and I was literally going through heaven and hell — with the album coming out it was heaven, and then after he passed it was hell.”
"EMPOWERING MUSIC IS IMPORTANT."
PHOTOGRAPHY BY:
PAUL L. CARTER
EDITION 05
AUGUST 2021
[CEROS OBJECT]
Photographer: Paul L. Carter / @langstoncarter
Stylist – Sam Woolf / @sam__woolf
Stylist assistant – Talia Nicole Garner
Hair Stylist – Dimitris Giannetos / @dimitrishair
Makeup – Dana Delaney / @danadelaney
Nails – Sarah Chue / @chuenails
DESIGNER - DAISY JAMES / @DJAMESDESIGN
Photographer: Paul L. Carter / @langstoncarter
Stylist – Sam Woolf / @sam__woolf
Stylist assistant – Talia Nicole Garner / @thatgirltal
Hair Stylist – Dimitris Giannetos / @dimitrishair
Makeup – Dana Delaney / @danadelaney
Nails – Sarah Chue / @chuenails
DESIGNER - DAISY JAMES / @DJAMESDESIGN
Ava Max is a Warner Music artist. Uproxx is an independent subsidiary of Warner Music Group